Here Becomes More Like There

Prokofy Neva, Dept. of Worlds, Planets, Multiverses, Simulated Proofs of Concepts, and Badly-Thought-Through Soviet Central Committee Planning by Game Companies

Once again, without any real public discussion, Linden Lab took one more step closer to becoming like its evidently envied competitor There today, as it instituted a new "Certification" system to issue what amount to licenses to top, skilled creators, putting them at a pinnacle of privilege in the inworld market of goods and services.

The online community There is often blasted for having a clearance process for developers to submit content. Now residents in SL, if they want to appear as "company-approved" and "possessing the top, acknowledged skills" will have to become "certified" in a process that will be run by 4 Lindens and and still-to-be-determined group of residents fanboyz who can sign up fast enough on the wiki.

This system is likely to generate enormous amounts of controversy, but there will be "no place to put it," as the forums comments are likely to be locked; the wikis are likely to be moderated, with discussion content (like my initial protest there) likely to be wiped as "not positive," and the blog will likely either tap out at 100 comments claiming a "wordpress glitch" or will simply be removed by Lindens.

The four Lindens in charge of the program are Glenn Linden, who is already known for running the elite developers' community insiders' list; a new Linden named "Heretic Linden" who represents if anything, not heresy, but company conformism with this program; Blue Linden, who manages the Teen Grid but also now the "volunteer system" (although this brief is unclear, given the removal of Live Help); and Eric Linden, one of the longest-running Lindens with viral marketing virtual-world cred as the author or owner of most trees and other Governor Linden builds in Second Life, who is already known for other FIC institutionalizations like the Bedazzled contract for Wells Fargo and the making of machinima such as Bells and Spurs.

The residents who will run it are not yet clear, though dozens have rushed to sign up including SL Viewsmaster Oz Spade, IVM builder Hiro Pendragon, SLCC organizer FlipperPA Peregrine, and other FIC regulars.

While some will welcome the system as representing a much-needed quality control for the world, the system poses serious questions not only about openness for creativity inworld and the free market of goods and services, but the Lindens' real intentions about "getting out of governance" when in fact, they're instituting a quisling/overlord system with a program that certifies what are likely to be their long-time pets as "the most skilled".

The immediate result of this "certification" is to create a control on the market, where some residents will get to have "Goodhousekeeping Seals of Approval" on their products as "certified" builders and scripters, and others will be unable to get Linden Lab boost to their marketing unless they submit to this system, likely to spawn various sycophantic "certifying agencies" who pass the first round of skills credentialling.

The system runs against the long-time claims of Linden Lab to be facilitating "your world/your imagination" unlike other games and worlds by encouraging user content, because they have finally ended the fiction that amateur content can be as good as professional, or credentialed content.

Currently, as the platform still allows people to upload the elements needed for creativity and sell them regardless of whether they are "approved" or "credentialled," the Linden-induced "certification" seal may in fact come to signify conformism and lack of innovation, and may actually signal buyers in the market that they are dealing with the fanboyz club of content creators. This will enhance sales for some, but could inhibit them for others.

"Linden Lab is developing certification for the use of key Second Life tools. We’ll begin with in-world building tools and LSL. We believe this will benefit Residents, Developers, and anyone who wishes to use Second Life by clearly identifying both key skills and the holders of those skills. This will also enable the creation of training to build the skills required for certification. It is Linden Lab's intent to work with an external certification provider to offer certification testing and maintain a list of those Residents who have been certified," the Lindens wrote on the wiki.

Evidently the Lindens have given up trying to ease the orientation and use of their wonky tools, and have decided to retreat into a "certification" process to spawn various third-party businesses to be "certified" to, in a sense, become mini-Linden Labs to their communities. Some users have already expressed concern that such an apprentice-like system will not be able to scale.

My contribution to the wiki discussion, before it's wiped:

"This system is the final institution of the FIC. It's not a positive development, as the free market and free media should establish value for skills. A free market and free media also enable anyone new to be able to access that market and media without having to clear unnecessary hurdles and bastions of establishment thinking and procedure.

All that's happening here is that Linden Lab is dispensing licenses to create, completely overriding their concept of "your world/your imagination". That is, sure, anybody can go on rezzing a cube, but Lindens are now deciding, in Central Committee fashion, who does this *well enough* to be able to qualify to exist in their certified community. It runs entirely contrary to the notions of openness and creativity which they originally promoted."

Comments

[Hiro Pendragon]

Hey Prok, I agree that there needs to be a level of openness with the certification. This is something I believe Glenn is heading up, and from what I know of Glenn, he likely also will share a concern to make sure the cert system is transparent. The concerns of the program are centered not around in-world activity, but the developer list.

So I would invite you and other professional SLrs who are interested in making sure there is openness in this program to sign up and help shape the program, as that seems to be exactly what the open sign-up is for.

[Prokofy Neva]

No, Linden Lab isn't good at openness and transparency, Hiro. Perhaps they shouldn't try? They constantly spring bad ideas like this on the public as fait accomplis *after* they've nailed them down with their pets at SL Views or even more secretive consultations. No sale.

Glenn Linden is the Linden who offered his insiders' list a crack and buying up remaining islands at the old price, is he not? The dev list is one of those things you have to "know somebody" and be "invited" to be on. No thanks.

If the developer list is not "centered around" inworld activity then...just what the *fuck* are they developing, Hiro? Themselves? Oh, thank you, you've answered my question about what "development" means for our world.

I absolutely DO NOT wish to sign up for any such institutionaliztion of the FIC, which was a crappy concept to begin with. They will even have a "land management" certification program and you can make DAMN SURE I will not be signing up even for that. It's insane, and wrong.

It sure exposes their fake claims to openness and a free market. They wish to control the market with their pets. They are a cult. It's better we know this sooner or later. Then perhaps the proper forces could be marshalled to limit its destructiveness sooner rather than later.

[Nacon]

It's there for a reason... cause too many people build crap and business from Real Life are not happy about being ripped off. (Sucka-punch anyone?)

And here is Prok bitching about it as if all College should teach everyone for less or simply free, so they can earn Master Degree.

Work your way up.

[urizenus]

Successful accrediting systems are generally based on a peer review process and by the cultivation of reputations over time, not by top-down governmental decree. The latter strategy just leads to cronyism and corruption in the real world. Is there any reason it would be different in virtual worlds?

[dandellion Kimban]

I thought that quality, at least in healthy societies, is controled by public. If you are good you are selling and everything is fine. If you are not then you go broke, and again, everything is fine.
Though I am supporter of the idea that some scripts should be controled and certyfied (gambling scripts come to mind) there is no way that everything on the grid is to be checked by lindens. But, after all, who cares? What goes for any other developer goes for Lindens too. If this idea is not good it will fail.

[Prokofy Neva]

Nacon, trolling as usual. Could you point to a single demand on a single forums, official or third-party, complaining about *lack of credentials* or *lack of training* as a problem causing fraud or incompetence in Second Life?

Go ahead, make my day. There are few, if any. Because fraud and incompetence occurs even among the most highly credentialed. In fact, some of the people who have ripped me off the most in Second Life will easily obtain Linden-sponsored credentially classes and go on to rip off other people.

This is a solution in search of a problem that itself is helping to create.

dandelion is opening up another issue I didn't think of. Certification of scripts! My God, aren't the script kiddies going to scream about that? Of course, once you have a certified group of Linden-approved scripters, it's a hop and a skip to making the scripts themselves be subject to approval.

[Prokofy Neva]

>the latter strategy just leads to cronyism and corruption in the real world. Is there any reason it would be different in virtual worlds?

No, if anything it will be worse, without free media and democratic government to provide a corrective.

I always marvel that the Lindens keep coming up with stuff that is utterly discredited in the real world, but they think merely by virtualizing it, they can take corporativist concepts like top-down certification, and cyber-bless them and have them fly.

[Nacon]

Yeah yeah yeah, I'm not planning on doing your homework. But I've been one of the people who suggested to Linden Labs to resist ability to build and script to free account users for quite a while. Seem like they are somewhat getting some ideas to make that different.

Hell, I'm not complaining about their plan with certification method. Seem reasonable if they really don't want to remove the ability to build and script for poor fella much like yourself to have a "chance" to prove your skills at all.

Not forget to mention that even in Rea Life, you HAD to have some kind of certification like a master degree to get a good high paying jobs, no? What linden are actually doing is to save all big business their times dealing with idiot much like yourself.

I think you're at lease upset about this "certification" thing going on because you know you're hopeless with building and scripting, no?

(oh boo hoo! Every time anyone says I am trolling... really, they are just trying to avoid my question or statement.)

[Prokofy Neva]

>But I've been one of the people who suggested to Linden Labs to resist ability to build and script to free account users for quite a while. Seem like they are somewhat getting some ideas to make that different.

Creator fascism. Fortunately for the sake of the freedom of the world, the Lindens' slavish desire for more sign-ups to show people overcomes their desire to do shit like this at the behest of their toadies like you.

In RL, credentials like those provided for doctors or lawyers or even full-time Internet bores like yourself are things that credentialed schools and state bars and such provide, but there is a necessary check and balance on such systems: democratic systems of governance and a free media. We don't have those within SL; having them around SL is extremely difficult.

I fail to see why RL credentials for operating on a live human being, legitimately put in place, or teaching and young and impressionable human being, should be then carried over as a concept in what is largely a game-like setting of creativity and innovation, where people use their imagination.

It wouldn't matter if I were hopeless in building and scripting, I would surely pass the test for land management they envision coming, but I have no intention of propping up such a flawed system.

[shockwave yareach]

A simple bit of regulation of the llRez() control is in order. Right now, letting anyone code with it regardless of skill level is like handing grenade launchers to monkeys. I say limit access to functions that create other things until the character has been in world for at least 3 months. This also prevents grey goo attacks by disposable characters.

[scraggy]

"Nacon, trolling as usual"

For the uninformed reader, trolling here is defined as disagreeing with Prokofy Neva.

[Ananda]

On looking over the source for this I don't see even the slightest suggestion that it would be used as a means of controlling what people could or couldn't create in SL. The closest analogue is not doctors or lawyers but all the other company-driven training or certification efforts in the computer software world. Programs that give you a credit on your CV for being "certified in Perl" or C++, or HTML or whatever, don't prevent people from doing whatever they feel like with their own web pages. "Certified" courses in AutoCAD or Photoshop don't dictate to people what they design with these programs.

This appears to be nothing more than an effort to add an appearance of professionalism to people's resumes. If any real change comes about because of it, it will be in establishing a LESS biased standard for who has the skillz and who doesn't.

[Cocoanut Koala]

Thank you for alerting us to this, Prok. I rushed immediately to sign up.

That doesn't mean I will necessarily want to be certified. Of course, I will NEED to be certified, and there is no reason why I wouldn't be certified, so I certainly intend to stay that course.

It's just that I'm such an individualist that depending on how this develops, it may wind up as something I don'tlike at all (possible - I've often seen seemingly innocuous things in SL turn into something awful) or don't need (unlikely).

It's just that I've always been quite the free agent, in real life, too. Where, thankfully, I didn't need to be certified by the government in order to have a life-long, successful career as a sole-proprietorship writer.

Which brings me back to - I just don't know what this thing is FOR. Is it just to help us builders and creators? Well, I need to go back and read their rationale.

The whole thing seems kinda nutty to me. Like you said, there is reason for people to get certified to, for example, operate on other people.

But to be certified in art? That's a new one on me! Unless you are a teacher.

It's like LL is our government and they are going to "certify" artists. (Some people keep saying they aren't the government, but hey, isn't this the hugest example that they are?)

State-sponsored certification of artists. Goodness.

Well, unless they make it illegal to sell things without certification, seems to me like most people will simply go around this. After all, it's kind of against the whole point of art and creativity to have to be certified for it, isn't it?

((Do you suppose they will make it illegal to sell things if you aren't certified? I wonder, what is the long-term plan here? Could it be that anyone can create, but you can't set your item for sale unless you are certified? I doubt it, but I suppose that's a possibility.))

So people will still buy the things they see that they like. But those who are seriously in business to sell things here to other SL residents will certainly benefit from having this official certification, and not having it will be to their detriment.

So, okay, let's say it's not about art, it's about business. Same thing here, though - what is our business OF, if not art? We are selling art, to be used as art.

Virtual houses are not going to actually fall down on people's heads, are they? Virtual food is not going to poison anyone, and virtual weapons won't really kill anyone.

These are all artistic representations, and really don't need to be under governmental overview.

Anyway, those are my early thoughts.

coco

[Prokofy Neva]

Actually, "trolling" is a concept I repudiate entirely. I don't think it is something anyone can define, and therefore I don't think it should ever be something you ban people for from a forums.

"Trolling" as narrowly defined often has to do with the desire of a young person with time on their hands, untethered to real life, to snipe at, challenge, goad, incite, challenge, and generally annoy everybody. It's part of the growing up process that in real life, can lead to a range of responses, from adults either answering questions or slapping the young whippersnapper upside the head.

Online, this process becomes untethered, as there is little or no adult supervision or interaction, and only such haphazard interaction as can be expected on an asynchronous forums. The person who deliberately challenges and acts contrarian then crystallizes his online persona by constantly getting attention through trolling, because on his own, he is too weak and stupid to mount posts of solid content on his own.

If I were to have written an article lavishly praising the Linden system, and inserting myself in the list to get credentialed, Nacon would have changed his tune, calling it hyprokisy and FICyness and blah blah blah.

shockwave, I have to wonder at Linden licentiousness and licensing, two extremes of the same utopian stick. ON the one hand, instead of putting in such a REZ thing as you suggest, which many might support, they gasp at how that would put a crimp in creativity, especially of their little pets and their alts. On the other hand, the impose a heavy-handed licensing process that in fact few will be able to clear, and it will be very much a funnelled process.

[Cocoanut Koala]

Well, I'd better be able to "clear" this. And I see no reason why I wouldn't be able to.

If this turned out to be something they gave or withheld from people for other reasons (aside from skill), it would definitely be a very, very bad thing.

coco

[Prokofy Neva]

Coco,

I'm fascinated to see that you've decided to bill SL as "art" and this process as "certifying art and artists" and you may get quite far with that concept.

I think for their purposes, however, they view it as "certifying programmers". Full stop. They view everything that happens in SL to be function of coding. So building and scripting are very much tied into the tekkie programming hacker cult. Building becomes more like art, of course, but with all their geometry and physics imposed on building, they can make it seem like engineering instead of art.

They want a class of high priests, and will do anything to draw a circle around themselves to keep others out.

[Cocoanut Koala]

Lol, I didn't decide to bill it as art - it IS art, and nothing else. I never viewed it as anything else.

Coding and scripting, of course, are less art (much less), and I can see how coding and scripting could have lethal consequences, such as bringing the grid down.

coco

[Hiro Pendragon]

Prok:

>> "No, Linden Lab isn't good at openness and transparency, Hiro."

Even if you feel this way about Linden Lab in general, Glenn has been. The whole developer listing that Glenn has put in a year's worth of effort into, and the SLDEV group is open for residents to join simply by asking Glenn or Eric, and the requirements are out in the open. If a resident has experience in SL, there are multiple Linden Lab aided outlets for them to connect with other developers and clients.

>> "They constantly spring bad ideas like this on the public as fait accomplis *after* they've nailed them down with their pets at SL Views or even more secretive consultations. No sale."

Linden Lab simply doesn't have time or resources to talk to *everyone*, but from what I've seen with the SLViews group, they did make a concerted effort to get a broad cross-section of professionals and heavy users of SL.

>> "Glenn Linden is the Linden who offered his insiders' list a crack and buying up remaining islands at the old price, is he not?"

No, he was not.

>> "The dev list is one of those things you have to "know somebody" and be "invited" to be on. No thanks."

No, you don't need to "know somebody". You can email Glenn or Eric Linden and get on the list.

>> "If the developer list is not "centered around" inworld activity"

I don't see how the list is anything but centered around in-world activity. At the same time, Second Life isn't *entirely* about being a walled garden, and so there are plenty of business that, unlike yours, extend onto the web and with other real-world items.

>> "I absolutely DO NOT wish to sign up for any such institutionaliztion of the FIC, which was a crappy concept to begin with."

You were the one who coined the phrase "FIC" - so there was no "concept to begin with" outside of your head. If you don't want to be part of an open project, then, well, you're leaving yourself out. Your choice, not some conspiracy.

>> "They will even have a "land management" certification program"

No. It's building and scripting. And if you want to help make sure it's not "land management", then you should join and voice your thoughts.

>> "It sure exposes their fake claims to openness and a free market. They wish to control the market with their pets. They are a cult. It's better we know this sooner or later. Then perhaps the proper forces could be marshalled to limit its destructiveness sooner rather than later."

Name-calling. Whatever.

The fact is, Prok, that this system is out in the open and anyone can go to the wiki and volunteer. The broader picture is that there are tons of people who want to learn how to build and script, and there's no good ways how to teach them. There are zero standards or curriculum in Second Life. By adding certifications, it allows people to concretely have a set of things that they know that they need to learn to be successful in Second Life.

It also paves the way for programming standards, APIs, and such, that will allow open source initiatives of all sorts of flavors. Imagine a SL browser with Firefox-like plugins where it's much easier for individuals to create skins or add-ons, without having to know all of the information of the client. This is the kind of thing that standards are absolutely essential as a precondition.

You're invited. Everyone's invited. If you have something to say to make it a good program, say it, because there's no one saying you can't.

[Cocoanut Koala]

The more I think about this, the more fascinating it becomes. Do you suppose they think of me as a programmer?

I'm kind of flattered by that concept.

I think of me as an artist who learned the particular program in order to create the art.

I noticed they call it "modeling" on the Wiki. But I also know that on all my computer games and other programs, they credit "artists," so there must be room in the mindset for that pure concept.

coco

[Cocoanut Koala]

Hiro, there will be a certification program for land and land management. It says so on the Wiki.

coco

[Tavasha_Martynov]

Erm... I don't have the time to go do all the research just this moment(I plan to), but does this mean I have to worry about someone passing up my products now because it doesn't have some Linden stamp of approval on it? :S

[Cocoanut Koala]

As I see it, yes. It's something you've got to have.

coco

[Prokofy Neva]

Tavasha, at one level, depending on your product and your customers, no, you don't have to worry about it. But if certain top content creators can add to their enhanced reputations the Linden-made credential of "certified builder/texturer/scripter" etc. then that will position them to be better sellers in the market. Some customers will see that someone is a certified builder or scripter and buy their products and not others. That's not a stamp of approval, but it's a tactic awarding of a sort of Good-housekeeping type seal.

I can't WAIT to see the fur fly and the eyes that get scratched out if/when they try to get into the concept of fashion as something to certify.

Hiro, Glenn runs a list for privileged developers. He's the one who put out the word that the last batch of islands would be for sale at the old lower price for those on that special list to grab while they lasted, as the Lindens were getting ready to put up the new price.

And I'm sorry, that tainted that list for good for me. It was used in that well-documented way to encourage insiderism and special deals, and will always be available to do so again. The Lindens had to backtrack out of that quick once it became publicized. If it hadn't been publicized, the islands would have sold to their pets and no one would be the wiser.

Um, nobody who runs or manages or governs "has time to talk to everyone". That's why you have representative government. That's why you have processes and procedures even in non-democratic states for people to make their concerns known. SL Views is not a cross-section of anything but LL's narrow interests.

The concept that it isn't a conspiracy if I opt-out, or that "I'm chosing to isolate myself" is breathtakingly bad faith. What it means is that people get to put over things by force that no demonstrable majority, or even significant minority has consented to. There's no demonstrable need for this, other than one a few Lindens and pets have identified to serve their own interests.

It doesn't matter to me if I get certified; what matters to me is the effect on the whole free economy of this sort of approach.

I don't think it's "name-calling" to call Linden Lab, an entity that does NOT behave like a normal company, that behaves something like a government, that has wonky ideas of management, that has secretive processes and a ritual-like induction to its own ranks, a "cult". It *is* a cult. Just because you get paid, and they let you go to the bathroom on demand, doesn't mean it's not a cult.

Love it, love it, love it, how open-source once again demonstrates that it is really about a closed society, about tiny cliques and cadres forcing standards on others under the guise of being open to everyone. God, it's astouding bullshit.

It you want to make standards, I'm all for them. Just don't cloak it in bullshit like this. Say "We want to make standards" and then have a democratic DISCUSSION about what those may be, with some kind of DEMOCRATIC PROCESS. Oh, never mind, it's hopeless.

What I have to say about making this a good program is as follows: don't launch it, and close it down.

Pro-tip, Hiro: if you want to be seen as skilled and credentialed, launch your products and services on the open market, and if people buy them, display them as successful projects and get more people to buy stuff. I mean, do it the open and free and normal way it's done in a RL civilized and democratic country with a free market, instead of like Russia where you have to pay a bribe to some official to get a license to do business which shouldn't require that kind of heavy discretionary approval anyway.

Then competition can thrive. Oh, I see, you did that, and it didn't work, because certain monopolists were getting all the Linden-steered media coverage. Oh, ok. Well...I feel your pain, then. But I don't think this new form of getting Linden blessing is a substitute for doing good work and having real customers who are happy reward you with more work.

[Cocoanut Koala]

I'm very, very sorry to report that the early rumblings and vibes I get from my ear-to-the-ground are this:

If you don't make builds for Fortune 500 companies, you don't need it, and can't have it. You cannot be certified.

Very early on, this is, yes. But I have a feeling that may become the primary struggle here.

coco

[Joannah Cramer]

Hmmm putting all the drama aside for a second, this is the same Linden Lab that for past year at least has been desperately shutting down, outsourcing and pushing off their way pretty much every kind of resident-related service they could, because they have no manpower to handle these things given the current size and growth of SL. The same company which is atm reported as hopelessly backlogged with services they still imply to maintain (trading tiers reviews and whatnot)

Like out of a sudden they are going to find time to reliably run review and certifation program for things as complicated as scripting and building? Yeah, right. Maybe for couple weeks until it stops being initial fun and becomes the usual chore to be dropped and swept under the carpet...

[Ananda]

Coco, can you explain further? Why would the certification be closed off in that manner? It would seem to be in the interests of everyone to have an open, standardized testing procedure. That includes anyone in the business of supplying services to Fortune 500 companies, as they would want the widest possible pool of talent to pick from in new hires.

[Cocoanut Koala]

I would hope it would include anyone at all, including those in the business of servicing Fortune 500 companies.

As I say, it is just very on rumblings I'm reporting here - people who have said that regular builders wouldn't need it - and that could be indicative of nothing at all.

I very much hope it would not go in that direction, and have no particular reason to think it will. However, it is something I want for myself, and the idea that others think I don't need it is worrisome.

As I said above, if it is something given or withheld for reasons other than skill, that would be bad.

coco

[Sadako Shikami]

Went to the wiki and noticed that scripts are already included in the certification process.

I'm a bit confused on this issue ... LL seems to be saying that only certified builders will be able to use "key tools" in order to build. Which key tools are they talking about? Does this mean changes in the current build/edit menus? I'm not an expert and I doubt I'd get certified, but I've been learning to build clean, beautiful structures; learning to add scripts; and I'm damned happy when they sell! I can't imagine a day in SL not being able to build or tweak a build to my heart's content.

My main question is ... does the LL certification thingy mean I would lose access to some of the build "tools" if I don't get certified?

[Joshua Nightshade]

"I'm very, very sorry to report that the early rumblings and vibes I get from my ear-to-the-ground are this:

If you don't make builds for Fortune 500 companies, you don't need it, and can't have it. You cannot be certified.

Very early on, this is, yes. But I have a feeling that may become the primary struggle here."

No one said this. Can't you even wait a bit before misinterpreting something?

[Cocoanut Koala]

Key tools?

I missed that part.

Maybe there is more to my [[ ]] musing above than I realized.

coco

[csven]

The interesting issue to me isn't so much the certification of SL Developers, but whether or not marketing firms and corporations hirng them need some level of certification. After all, afaic the worst ideas seem to be driven from them and not the people developing the SL content for them.

I'd suggest that LL institute a Corporate Certification to ensure stupid ideas aren't deposited inside SL.

[Cocoanut Koala]

"Linden Lab is developing certification for the use of key Second Life tools."

Uh-oh. You're right.

Looks like I was right in my musings.

Now, I wonder what these key tools would be? Things we already have, that you would have to be certified to use?

Or - and I think this is more likely - nifty new tools that you can't get unless you pay a certification administrator 1000 real U.S. dollars to take their test.

What a horrible thought!

coco

[Prokofy Neva]

>My main question is ... does the LL certification thingy mean I would lose access to some of the build "tools" if I don't get certified?

I hope it doesn't mean that. I hope that the sentence could be read: "LL is certifying that you can use key tools" not providing special FIC-only build tools.

I went to Robin Linden's office hours and tried to get some answers on this. I said it was more over-involvement in resident governance, and she didn't see it like that.

Khamon helpfully said, oh, it's like getting a Novell license, and she grabbed on that analogy in relief.

But it's not like a Novell license. Because there is competition to Novell. And because Novell exists in a society in RL where you can criticize it in the media, regulate it, exercise free market norms on it -- it exists in a context where it can make sense.

In SL, it becomes merely a vehicle for a few egos to get stroked.

[Gaius Goodliffe]

"It you want to make standards, I'm all for them. Just don't cloak it in bullshit like this. Say "We want to make standards" and then have a democratic DISCUSSION about what those may be, with some kind of DEMOCRATIC PROCESS. Oh, never mind, it's hopeless."

Yes, it is. Decades of experience have clearly and irrefutably demonstrated to the software engineering community that when a "democratic process" sets a standard, it ends up being a hopelessly flawed, bad, counter-productive standard. Thankfully, in the marketplace of ideas, such standards usually end up being crushed under well-developed standards, which are usually the result of a one or a few developers with a common vision implementing a proof-of-concept in the form of working code that always performs way better than crap designed to please everybody. Of course, there are many real needs to be addressed, so the way to deal with that is, rather than let anyone throw out an idea that may not be able to be implemented well in practice (the downfall of most committee compromises or feature requirements from non-engineers), the open source community requires first that the idea be implemented, and that once proven workable, it only then be integrated into the whole. So, the initial standard is designed by few, and then everyone is free to extend it, but only if they can demonstrate with working code that it's extensible in that manner.

Overly democratic processes have killed far too many standardization attempts for any software engineer today to take such nonsense seriously. You can argue all day until you're blue in the face about the evils of this, but reality is what it is. It's better to use a flawed process that has been proven to yield good results more often than not, then an "ideal" process that has been repeatedly proven to yield crap.

Open source is fully transparent, but it's utterly non-democratic, specifically designed to discard the ideas of anyone who can't demonstrate true engineering skill. Ideally, it's a meritocracy. In reality, it can often fall short of that. But it's far, far better than the alternative. Arguing against it in order to advocate an utterly unworkable alternative will get you nowhere.

[Inigo Chamerberlin]

Ah, the certification con - I suppose it had to come.

What's the point of talking about it? We all know how it works. Sooner or later 'certification' becomes a cash cow. 'Certified' AVs recover their certification costs by raising their prices. LL makes more money, 'certified' individuals don't, employers of 'certified' individuals pay more - everyone looses - except LL.

You got a complaint about a 'certified' product/service? email support@lindenlab.com :-)
Or - 'If you care to examine the relevant section of the TOS...' :-)

I'd be angry, except it's actually laughable how LL jump in on every opportunity to wring a few more bucks out of SL.

$econd Life! OUR world - your MONEY. :-)

The REALLY fun bit will be when it becomes a baning offence to employ the services of, or buy goods from, an uncertified source. :-)

Or rez a prim by yourself if you aren't certified. :-)

How long before 'escorts' require certification I wonder?

Oh brave new world...

[Ordinal Malaprop]

I have not seen any suggestion by actual Lindens that this is going to be used to restrict access - I think that "certification for the use of key Second Life tools" should really read "certification in the use of" or "of knowledge of the skills required in the use of" or something along those lines.

Restricting access to tools would be a huge philosophical change for LL and also something entirely counterproductive, going against all of the strategies for encouraging user contribution and participation; even taking the most mercenary interpretation possible of LL's motives it would be a good move.

Also, as I said on the forums, it seems a little comical to be planning on creating certifications in the use of tools which aren't even properly documented in the first place (the LSL Wiki is a fantastic and invaluable effort, but is not really the same thing - I can imagine the reaction were I to say in my other life "oh, let the users work out what I do, I'll just give them the bare minimum and they can write their own manuals") and are subject to rapid and unpredictable change and interaction. Mind you, if it means we get proper documentation on the tools, I would be much more favourably inclined.

[Artemis Fate]

I'm still not sure what this MEANS even. It seems like it's just some sort of wacky "Hey, you know how to build stuff? *stamp* Well now we recognize that you do. Congrats." Seems rather pointless and unnecessary to me.

I do find it very interesting how LL policy has suddenly taken a U-turn from "Let's try to stay out of resident affairs as much as possible" to cracking down on ageplayers, gambling, and this whole certification thing.

[Prokofy Neva]

Ordinal, I would hope for better understanding from you.

If tool knowledge was just something on a template, where you could even make an automatic tutorial/certifier with a yes/no menu that took you through steps, like "rez a cube" and "Good, one point!" "now move that cube along the XYZ axis" "Good! take a point" with the end saying "You have 88 out of 100 points, you are certified!" then one might be for it.

But it will be gamed as it is subjective, arbitrary, and dependent on special relationships.

Basically, the Lindens are moving in the direction of other games like There and Kaneva and such that reserve developers as a kind of special class of players or residents consciously, an have special rules and procedures for them.

What I had always liked before about SL is that it didn't have that conscious segregation, although of course they had the FIC system.

What I realize now is that the era of amateurs is over. They want SL to be software for developers of their choosing to build things for corporate clients.

The task now is for amateurs to exit gracefully, I imagine.

[SunShine Kukulcan]

Coco:

So answer me this, why have you already signed up at the blog?

[pits yao]

It will turn out as it is in real life, the most boring, awfull and commercial pieces will be sold by "certificated" people (like in rl with art for example), linden are obviously turning themself towards big corporates companies,
one thing to do is to send informations everywhere and to everyone not to buy from those "certificated" sellers, doesn't that make you think of all the little shops who are closing in rl because of big supermarkets ??

your world/your imagination... my ...

we'll see...

will they force us to get certificated to have acces to new builiding tools?
will second life start to die soon? as most of people after a while having sex and clubbing are here for designing stuff...

looking a few years ago, actually in 1998, when "second world" was on line (basically the same as second life , owned by Canal +, a french private tv), it went famous, and disapeared as fast...

welcome to second corporate life

[Io Zeno]

The only limit of access to these certifications will be financial, since they seem to want to have this testing done by third party companies. All I know is that IT certs can be quite expensive. We have no idea how easy or difficult the test may be for an average builder or coder. But that may not be the difference between who is certified or not, the willingness to pay for the testing may be the deciding factor. In which case it may in fact be limited to those doing business with RL companies, since that would be an investment worth making given the possible rewards. I doubt that your average seller is going to seriously consider the time and *expense* of a certification at this point.

Unless it is quite cheap. Then I start to have issues with it, if this becomes some necessary seal of approval in what has been a open-ended and creative atmosphere, where anyone can learn the skills and create, without all the BS of RL, creating divisions between the "pros" and the "amateurs". That is a stifling influence, to me.

[Ordinal Malaprop]

Prokofy: Certification can be a bad thing if a significant number of people actually think it means anything beyond "this person is not completely lying about knowing about X". I suspect that some residents might take this view but certainly anyone who isn't an idiot won't; I have interviewed and recruited myself, as well as been through the process. (Incidentally, I have no professional certifications, as the only ones available I consider a waste of my time and money and not reflective of actual skills. This has not harmed me in the slightest. Either one is a complete newcomer, in which case one won't be certified, or one has experience, in which case the experience is far more important.)

It is quite possible for special interests to hijack the requirements certainly - though it would be tricky to actually give oneself an advantage - and the slightest hint of a lack of transparency would mean that not only I but also hundreds of others denounce the programme. I am not interested in anything which involves residents certifying other residents.

The major point for me is any potential restriction of tool usage based on this. If that happens, I will be kicking up an immense fuss and considering leaving, because a major part of the enjoyment which I take from life on the Grid is in discussing, learning and teaching about scripting, and I actively reject a two-tier There-type system, with "registered scripters", as I have stated since my first days. I don't believe that LL plans to do this though (particularly in the context of open-sourcing).

I am in two minds about the whole thing, even if I mostly see it as an irrelevancy. On the one hand (or mind) I think that certification is unnecessary and possibly a handicap for younger residents wishing to get work. On the other hand, if handled properly, it may lead to increased educational resources and a set of basic tutorials in world skills, and education as to just how to do simple stuff in SL at the moment is sorely lacking, left to scattered residents to muddle through and generally very inefficient.

Tool access will be paramount, and the curriculum itself will be something worth close watching (which is why I put my name on the list) but this seems like a little more than the usual LL "oh here is something we are vaguely thinking about and might maybe do at some point perhaps".

[Ordinal Malaprop]

Io: Yes, the "pro" vs "amateur" thing is certainly something that makes me dislike the idea too. It's not as if we need any more social division, particularly if the criteria are resident-set. But I suspect that if it comes to that many people will simply ignore it.

I won't be jumping through any hoops myself, I can say that now.

[Io Zeno]

As you said, Ordinal, this also may wind up on the heap of things LL would like to do and never get around to implementing. It's a long list, heh. I like the fact that anyone can sign up for this at present though. The more resident eyes on the whole project the better. If they really are intent on doing this, I would like them to do it right. A certification can easily turn into a worthless but necessary evil and that is dragging a real life problem into SL for no good reason.

[Cocoanut Koala]

Sunshine, I have made it clear from my first post here that I signed up for it, and have made it abundantly clear (I would think) why.

coco

[Nacon]

Prok said: "Creator fascism"

Oh? Wasn't that you bitching about people creating bunch of alts? Bitching about ESC using search creation into work? Copybots? Contests? I guess that also make you a "creator fascism" as well?

My suggestion was meant to be used to control these massive alt account that aren't verified, to make most of them pointless and stick with one account with an actual verified data. Good job with this "name calling" method to press me in anyway. I mean really! ;)
You're still an idiot.

I do kinda agree with Artemis about how pointless it is but if Linden Labs want to do it this way, meh, fine, don't really care other wise. It's somewhat easier to prove something in a lazy way to people by simply showing them your Certification stamp/badge instead of showing them your creation.

It really doesn't matter as much, should wonder why Prok is bitching about it. She has no business in building nor scripting.

[Cocoanut Koala]

It's still way early to say, but now it's looking to me like this is something that will be available only at high cost, and thus something available only to people who work for real-life corporations.

So essentially, it is probably de facto already only for Development Directory people, and not even all of them.

Now, that would mean that though lots of us have signed on for it, in order to make it better, and hoping to become certified ourselves, ultimately it would only be available, pragmatically speaking, to a few.

So - they're getting our work on it for nothing - to create the standards. But this work may ultimately go toward benefitting only a few.

coco

[Prokofy Neva]

Coco, where do you see that they will charge for this certification? how do you mean "cost"?

[SexY]

_Oh? Wasn't that you bitching about people creating bunch of alts? Bitching about ESC using search creation into work? Copybots? Contests? I guess that also make you a "creator fascism" as well?_

Um, Nacon, isn't that why you had S. Valentine banned, so you could have the whole SIM to yourself and your creations?

We remember.

[Rebel Television]

I'm crossing my fingers that it'll be a great opportunity for some of us in the long run. A way for able content creators without celebrity status or social networks, and without the business savvy to create famous products, to get a piece of that corporate pie; to receive handy PayPal deposits for our work, instead of battling for L$ breadcrumbs.

In any case, the meritocracy will still be there for those who want to be judged that way. You'll still be able to go on SL Exchange and compare various items on grounds like aesthetic appeal, seller reputation, and buyer ratings and reviews. "Certified Builder" won't mean much if the pictures suck.

[Io Zeno]

"Coco, where do you see that they will charge for this certification? how do you mean "cost"?"

I brought it up, so:

"It is Linden Lab's intent to work with an external certification provider to offer certification testing and maintain a list of those Residents who have been certified."

They don't work for free. If they are going to outsource this to a testing service, unless LL is paying for the tests themselves (doubtful), residents will have to pay to be tested. And keep their names on the list.

[Steven Catron]

If the testing is outsourced to a reputable company in this area, say Thompson Prometrics, it will cost money.

It is hinted in the wiki that this is intended, so the conclusion is proximate.

[Prokofy Neva]

Ordinal, you're saying you wouldn't like a system that involved residents certifying other residents, but that's what this is, look at all the fanboyz signing up. And these 4 Lindens, what residents were they before they became Lindens?

What third-party testing service could they possibly find that could become adapt enough to test SL skills except a resident's company, or a former Lindens' company? It's bound to be a racket.

Creator fascism is defined as an ideology that privileges and protects creators above all from rules and laws that apply to others.

[Cocoanut Koala]

Yes, the sentence from the Wiki that Io quoted.

Now my question is, how much do you suppose this might cost me? Any ideas?

coco

[Io Zeno]

If it's a written test it will be quite easy for a third party company to do the testing. No where does the wiki say this will be a hands-on test. In fact that would be so difficult to do reliably, and necessitate having a real person be in SL with each person being tested, I can't imagine that is what they are planning. So much of building is geometry and math it can be done with text and graphic representations well enough.

[Io Zeno]

It depends on who they use, Cocoa. A test can cost $50 or $500. Who knows.

[Cocoanut Koala]

A MATH test! I'm too old to have to take math tests again! lol

If the cost is as prohibitive as $500, Io, I would think this would be a good mechanism for further separating the haves from the have-nots and the knowns from the not-so-well knowns creators in SL, and further discourage anyone new from entering the field.

coco

[Io Zeno]

I use every cheat known to avoid using math in building so if they go that route, I'm outta luck, lol.

I would hope they will be reasonable and have the test in the lower end of that scale. But I am clueless as to how detailed, long or short these tests are going to be, honestly. I doubt they will be in the upper end I quoted but that is just to give you an idea of the range.

[Prokofy Neva]

I think something that Robin said during her office hours about this contains a clue to understanding the Lindens' perception of it.

When I mentioned the certification idea and my concerns, at first she didn't know what I was talking about. Certified? she asks.

Then after we talked a bit more she said, "Oh, you mean the program that developers are using for their customers?"

And that lets me know that they already perceive of the developers as a class apart -- they always did. They are no different than any game company, or software company of the routine variety, that has developers with perks. Gwyn is particularly found of espousing this theory, and often posters follow this hectoring line, trying to tell you, oh, they're just a software company, shut up, they get to do what they want blah blah.

And you begin to see that they perceived the first round of people after beta as "the developers" and maybe were even surprised to find all the rest of us showing up, and not even really having a place to put us. But now, they've got it straight in their minds: there are developers, and those people have customers. Those customers aren't like my customers inworld, they're Customers like IBM or Toyota.

Everything for the Developers!

[Io Zeno]

She may also mean, Prok, that is really *is* intended for developers who work with RL companies (their customers). Which is a reasonable argument for this that has been made, RL companies don't know who is qualified for contract work within SL and this is one additional thing you can put in your portfolio.

[Cocoanut Koala]

Well, I don't care if it was created to help developers dealing with real-life customers. If there is such a thing as a certified builder, I want to be one.

coco

[Zetetic Aubret]

I totally respect your worries, Prok, but I think there is a bit of a misunderstanding about what certification is used for. I think they intended it to function more like, eg, Microsoft Certified Systems Engineering certification processes. In engineering communities, that kind of certification is intended primarily for IT workers, and it's meant to be a stamp on their resume that proves that they've passed a test proving _functional_ competancy in certain technical topics. Certifications like MCSE are used almost exclusively in hiring decisions, and are really just like mini degrees.

If you look at any software superstar, though, I bet you'd be hard pressed to find any with an MCSE. It's just not for that kind of person. If you're doing creative, compelling, high level work, your work speaks for itself - you don't need certifications.

As Second Life moves into a more corporate phase (a shift the web went through, too) people looking in from the outside want some way to tell who's competant in creating things in Second Life and who isn't. They don't have the background to evaluate the work itself, so they want something to turn to as a proxy. This is not, and is unlikely to ever be, a way to prejudge the quality of something. No piece of software (outside of enterprise markets, in which nothing interesting ever happens anyway) says "Designed by all MCSE certified engineers."

While a creative meritocracy is a great vision, it's not a sustainable vision. As soon as the community is composed of people who create and those who don't, other metrics for evaluating quality are going to arise. Thus far a lot of that has been word of mouth, but it's only natural that it shifts to more formal metrics because word of mouth doesn't scale.

Of course, I could be totally misinterpreting their intentions. If the program turns out to be what you think it is, I think your critque is basically on target.

[Frankie Antonioni]

Ok here is what I think, I think that Second Life needs a Better Business Bureau, and we need a way to rate people for each transaction.

Here is how it would work, each time that you buy something, or pay rent, or give somebody money, that will count as a transaction.

Each transaction will have a tranaction number.
This is how the transaction number will look.

B 73682 34871 77453 34

It will consist of a letter and seventeen numbers.

Here is how the rating will look.

P N
Transaction 0 400
Gifts 800 0
Rent 0 0

Under transaction, this person has zero positives, but 400 negatives. Under gifts this person has 800 positives, but has zero negative. Rental has zero for positive and negative.

Now transaction is for if you buy clothes, furniture,other objects or if you pay someone to build or create houses or objects.

Gifts are for if you put money in a tip jar or pay a prostitute, or if you just give someone money.

Rent is for if you are renting a house or store, or if you are paying someone rent.

To view this information you will have to go to the SL website.

Now if anybody from Linden Labs is reading this, could you show this idea to others at LL.

[Frankie Antonioni]

Well it didn't come out right, I had the letters P and N, just a little bit over to the right.

[Nacon]

Prok said: "Everything for the Developers!"

Ahh ok... ...and do you even develops anything? I'm sure that's the question will be asked when you can't show them you're certified in interview for jobs.

"Um, Nacon, isn't that why you had S. Valentine banned, so you could have the whole SIM to yourself and your creations?"

He got himself banned from SL and I left the sim to someone else... hell, he wanted me to make everything for him. wtf?

[Prokofy Neva]

Oh, this explains it better. A reader who asked to remain anonymous submits this for our perusal:

[10:42] Heretic Linden: Hiya, Instructors! I hate to send this in group IM, but group notices are sort of down right now, so here's the info. A bunch of us Lindens have decided to create a Second Life Certification. Obviously, this involves every last one of you since you are the most knowledgeable Residents in SL. We would love it if you would help us shape this project. To facilitate Developer, Instructor, and Volunteer participation, we have created a SL Certification wiki, which can be found at http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/SL_Certification. Please visit, edit, and discuss. Thanks for your time and consideration.
[10:43] Lexi Hayek: will do!
[10:43] Second Life: Lexi Hayek has left this session.
[10:43] Lefty Belvedere: great idea
[10:43] Anna Adamant: ty Heretic...:).. will do!
[10:43] Heretic Linden: :)
[10:43] Sundance Churchill: Will you be making a blog post?
[10:44] Xylo Hasp: that's heretical
[10:44] Heretic Linden: Probably not since we are primarily looking to include a specific group of Residents (Instuctors, Volunteers, Developers).
[10:44] Sundance Churchill scribbles down the URL
[10:45] Second Life: Sundance Churchill has left this session.
[10:45] Cay Trudeau: Excellent
[10:45] Second Life: Heretic Linden has left this session.

[Cocoanut Koala]

Hmm. Looks like the word got out, and they got more than developers, instructors, and volunteers. I wonder if they are going to kick out the rest of us?

coco

[Prokofy Neva]

Zetetic, it's not a "bit of a misunderstanding" as you can see from the above-posted bit of FICiness from the instructors' group IM.

They aren't even talking "developers," but another class of people they worship and fete, which is volunteers, instructors, mentors, helpers, etc. (they overlap, of course). You know, Jesus blesses the apostles, and tells them to go forth and teach all men. It's how all religions and cults work, make secret knowledge, impart it to a few acolytes, make them work their way up, have them then train others. It's not an open system.

Heretic Linden is only heretical to the superficial concept the Lindens used to tout about "your world/your imagination" open to anybody; in reality, he is in utter conformity with the esoteric meaning the inner Linden core has always imparted and always will impart to their initiated ones.

The field of translation also has "certification" and people who want their birth certificates and medical school records always ask on different groups and agencies where I belong for a "certified translator". But that concept is difficult to enforce in a federal country with different states. There is no master union of translators or state certification in the way there are in other countries. That is, you can become a State Dept. translator, and pass some test, but for some employers and jobs, that actually may be a signal that you're sub-par. There is only one way to be valued; from the market, from your actual work, from your record and portfolio, from your actual published works.

Programming is something easier to quantify and value and test for than translating (though such things exist too, and I even have a degree with X number of hours of translation course work and an exam that would do for "certification" in some countries). Still, as Coco is aptly pointing out, in the SL context, it's about creativity, art, imagination, etc. Somebody might script something that is fun and awesome but violate the rigidly sandbox- and IRC-channel norms of clean scripting, it might listen too much or have too many lines or whatever their criteria is.

Furthermore, in SL, before hiring a builder, normally you'd see a portfolio that would more than likely include actual builds or items you could actually see, and examine the name of the creator of -- in that sense, SL exists as a 3-D living resume and certificate that really begs the question of something some pretentious ass will write on his profile.

I said long ago, that as soon as they make a wiki that only allows instructors, mentors, helpers, etc. log on to it, against some grid that some Linden funnels, we will have a two-tier society institutionalized. And it will come to that. Right now, anybody can log on to that wiki and post something (even I did). That won't last.

Already, in the sections called "discussion," where people began to ask questions about the general purpose (which was very half-assed and formed poorly -- it would get a D on a high-school essay). And as soon as I made some pointed comments, and another person did, we were edited and shunted off to a new section called VOICES AGAINST. That's why I hate wikis and wikipedia. Anonymous, rigid, busybodies following really harsh tribal ethics push and shove at the group -- it isn't really open. Somebody with the time to sit and obsess all day like Signpost Marv will have at it and run it by default.

[Prokofy Neva]

Coco,

Yes, I wonder about that too. Especially the Banned Ones like myself who are locked out of the blog and the official forums. Then, if going to the wiki to register and participate is part of certification, how can Banned Ones be certified? So the fact that Torley or Pathfinder Linden became insulted about any challenge to their pets or their gurus at the Lab and booted you becomes an actual economic liability -- in short, a closed society, no different than the Soviet Union.

Of course, they have got to know that you can't create little feted groups that last for long. Word always gets out, and they can't maintain omerta or conspiratorial silence without actually sounding like the bad thing they are -- which they'd probably still like to avoid.

[Zetetic Aubret]

I still don't fully buy that argument. Coco is right to say that genuine recognition within SL comes from creativity and artistic merit, but this certification process isn't about that at all. Certification processes are lowest-common-denominator verifiers. It's not an MFA, it's more like a vocational school degree. It's for people where a portfolio maybe doesn't make sense. This is not about the creative "feted" classes. They're going to be involved (presumably) in the discussion about what should go on the test, but I imagine the most creative and interesting builders and scripts won't go through the hassle of certification because their work stands on its own. No one expects certification to measure creativity, and it's not taken as a promise of creativity - just as a mark of technical competance.

As in your translating example, I expect certification will evolve into something that most people don't get because it's not important for their building practice. I honestly don't think this program will have that much of an effect on the world.

All that said, if certification DOES become a pass to any sort of functionality/club/events/channel/sim, I agree that would be a terrible thing. I haven't been involved in SL nearly as long as you have, so I guess I still have faith that they're genuinely trying to do the right thing and it won't come to that. That chat log doesn't look like as much of a smoking gun as you make it out to be. It looks to me like they're busy, don't mean for this to be a big hairy deal, and want to make the people they're asking to help feel good. That's classic volunteer management, not fete-ing the elites, from my still-optimistic perspective.

[www.greatmarketingstuff.com/blog]

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[Nacon]

heh... spammer.

Anywho, you know, maybe they are planning on building network with business and jobs more than just having certification. Why need one for Volunteers? It's volunteer...

Must have a certification to... volunteer? Now it's not making any sense.

[Doubledown Tandino]

I just don't get why LL would want to create more work for themselves. Submissions = more work for LL.

[Prokofy Neva]

They'll just certify a round of pets, then have the pets do the next rounds, it will make them feel terribly precious and self-important.

[Steven Catron]

I assume that an official builder or scripter certification would have to be done for the real person, not for the avatar.

On the other hand LL plans to provide lists of certified scripters and builders for potential customers, which are likely to include the handle of the avatar and the name of the person playing it, so a prospective builder or scripter can be contacted ingame as well as in the real world.

I suppose this will lead to some interresting disputes about privacy.

[Lewis nerd]

There's one big flaw in the assumption that you have to be a "Linden pet" to be on the Developers list.

I'm on it, and doing nicely for a part time, small scale effort thankyouverymuch.

www.lewisnerd.com

Lewis

[Aleister Kronos]

Clearly I am very late into this discussion - but anyway, here goes:

It makes a lot of sense to have virtual equivalents of RL bodies. For example in the UKin RL we have: RIBA for building architects; Federation of Master Builders for constructors and so on.

Within a virtual worlds environment (I'm looking to the future Metaverse here), having standards bodies that help regulate and QA their members, and arbitrate with disgruntled clients would be one sign of a grown-up virtual world. But this would, of necessity, have nothing to do with LL per se. I would expect companies like MOU or The Sheep to be members of such bodies.

However, I see no reason why artisans and craftsfolk need to be certified by LL or anyone else. For QA and arbitration, membership of a guild or union might be thought useful - but certification will deliver limited benefit, and would be a totally unreliable measure of creativity.

[Reality]

Personally I see this as more or less like Microsoft's certification of drivers and other such software/hardware related things.

[Prokofy Neva]

Lewis, you haven't been certified yet.

[Lewis Nerd]

True, but there is absolutely no reason I shouldn't be. As it's still early days, we'll have to wait and see what you have to do to get the certificates.

If I do ... does that make me FIC?

Lewis

[Prokofy Neva]

No.

[Mat Warf]

Having seen code quality in various parts of the open source client, this is pretty rich.

[FWord Utorid]

First... Like college diplomas, the majority of IT Certifications are nothing more than bullshit. Having a document or attenting a series of seminars or kissing someone's sphincter at LL by jumping through the flaming hoops makes you no more or no less qualified to perform any given task. "Hi, I'm a certified texture creator." "Hi, I have a degree in PRIM DESIGN."... "I can write lsl scripts that fail at at equal or greater rate than anyone else that writes lsl scripts." While I understand that LSL scripting does require a degree of expertise... The rest of this is not unlike getting a PhD in finger painting.

Next, quite a few so-called "certified" IT professionals got their certs by cheating, lying, or stealing. There's a wonderful company called TestKing that sells all of the answers to all of Microsoft's IT tests. There are even people out there called 'proxy testers' that, for a certain fee, will take a test FOR you, often in China or India. There's even a website, http://www.certguard.com/ , dedicated to reporting on the criminal behavior that surrounds this kind of knowledge roadblocking.

I have every confidence that the stability of the LL Certification system will rival the stability of the grid itself, and the credibility of the system will be as rock solid and trustworthy as a married, hefty politician at a titty bar.

Straight up, if you are going for a certification in "skin design" and a masters in "smudging the edges of an artificial vagina", and you expect to wind up with a high paying (read, more than 18L$ per hour) job as a result, you should begin to look elsewhere. Of course, if you are looking for a bumper sticker, a t-shirt, or a piece of paper for your "I love ME" wall -- suitable for framing, this could be for you. I'm sure they will give you a lollypop if you are good.

-- fu

[Nicholaz Beresford]

This is common practice with basically all large companies offering platforms. The platform itself is worthless and in order to genreate content (which in return generates users) you give the power content creators a bit of special treatment.

The next step is to provide a seal of quality.

Novell did it, SAP doesit, Oracle does it, Microsoft does it.

But it is nothing but cover-your-ass for those in fortune 500 companies hiring professionals to develop content for them. If a project goes south, they can still say "but we hired a certified professional whatnot" for it.

It does make some sense with very complex platforms (a friend of mine was a Microsoft Certified Windows NT Specialist in the good old days) and on that course learned quite a few intricacies about NT which the average joe on the street doesn't know. It did not make him a better consultant, it did not make him a better programmer, but it showed people hiring him, that he knew at least the basic ins and outs.

And, most importantly, it covered the asses of those who hired him.

I think this will be similar with this program and I guess Coco wasn't too far off that with the fortune 500 remark. If you don't sell to clients who need to cover their asses agaist their own management, you most likely will not need the certificate. And if you do sell to those clients, you'll make enough money to pay for the $500 to $2000 which those things usually cost in the IT world.

[Montana Corleone]

God, I wish you guys would learn to read....

The aim is to set up a certification system that will be administered by a third party. Residents can they choose when they hire someone whether or not they take any notice of it. It's a way of saying, yes, a certified person has at least the minimum skills required for the task. Whether they do a good job or not is neither here nor there. And as some have said, it's not really residents who will be looking at this, but RL companies because corporates love bits of paper and ISOs...

And they are calling for "members of the Developer, Instructor, and Volunteer communities" not because those will be the ones in it, but to set the criteria that the certification by that third party will use. They are the best placed people to know what skills it is someone needs to do a job.

http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/SL_Certification

They clearly state they don't want to influence the certification themeselves, but are hoping that quality MAY go up as a result. And if the modelling and scripting pilots work, the hope is to extend it to other areas.

Seems to me like a good idea since there is no such current scheme. If it's run properly by the third party, is not too expensive and used, then it will be good. But some of that is stuff that will be decided by this group, and anyone is free to apply to help set these criteria.

[Maklin Deckard]

From the Wiki -- Read as: Yes it will cost money, if the 'third party' is anything other than community-based volunteers. As in the real-world the cost will depend on the duration, presitge and popularity of the courses.

I have ZERO interest as a builder of PAYING some asshole friend-of-a-Linden who got his or her own little 'soak the player' franchise from LL. If this is going to be part of SL, the Lindens need to be running it and (if necesary) charging for it...not creating business opportunities for their inner circle.

"Yes, the "pro" vs "amateur" thing is certainly something that makes me dislike the idea too. It's not as if we need any more social division, particularly if the criteria are resident-set. But I suspect that if it comes to that many people will simply ignore it.

I won't be jumping through any hoops myself, I can say that now." -- Ordinal

I won't be going for this certification. I am quite happy with my little shop and the items I make. I have them on holovendor so people can see what they are getting. This is just a crutch for the lazy corps that won't do their homework before hiring -- and a golden opportunity for the lindens to reward their friends / top designers.

And much like my experiences with MCSE's (the last FOUR I have worked with were certified, but I would NOT let them touch a server since they had jack and shit for hands-on knowledge), I am going to assume most the people rushing for this are just looking for a paper to wave at the easily impressed by titles...book smart, experience dumb...and shy away from their products.

[Inigo Chamerberlin]

Ok, all very interesting. But I have the deepest most innate distrust of both LL's motives for this, and of 'certification' under circumstances.
Professional qualification is one thing - and can be highly misleading too.
'Certification' is nothing but a cash cow for those issuing the certificates.

I've had more poor work carried out by, and witnessed more unprofessional behaviour by 'certified' this that and the others than by 'uncertified' 'fly-by-night amateurs', as the 'certified' and those issuing certificates would have you believe the uncertificated are.

The only true measure of a person's ability to carry out work is the quality of the finished product - something corporate idiots seem totally unable to grasp. Probably because they can't even recognise a decent job of work, or produce on themselves!

IF this move is all about providing the corporate fools with a 'guide' to save their asses - fine, I have no ambitions to work for them.

I worry about this whole concept permeating the rest of SL and affecting people's ability to use SL as advertised.